Conscious Relating's topics - tribe.net

Relationship without co-dependence

healingforthesoul — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:23:03 GMT

There is an interesting theory out there regarding relationships and co-dependence. Most relationships are founded on co-dependence--the kind of co-dependence where you don't really love and support each other, you're both just there for what you can get out of it. Your partner becomes your means to salvation/end suffering/feel love/etc. Whatever you give to your partner is in expectation of what you might get later in return.

Even those relationships that aren't founded on co-dependence will have some elements of co-dependence to them, just because that's part of human nature.

However, there is a way to avoid the worst of this kind of dynamic. It has to do with where you allow your motivation for being in relationship to come from. If you're in it because of what you think you can get out of it, then it will be co-dependent. If you're in it because you want to "save" your partner, then it will also be co-dependent (even if you believe that you're being completely "selfless").

The only way to completely avoid the pitfalls of co-dependence is to be in a relationship for no other reason than because Truth tells you to be there. If it's painful, and Truth tells you to stay, stay. If it's wonderful and Truth tells you to move on, move on. In this way, your motivations and what you expect to get out of the relationship all come from Truth, not fear, lack, or need.

What are your thoughts?

posted in Conscious Relating - 13 replies

Can you get your needs met by an addict?

aschleigh — Wed, 07 May 2008 09:18:55 GMT

I had a big discussion about this in my couples counseling class. Can you get your need met by a using addict? Is it worth it to stay in a relationship with some one who uses drugs or alcohol?

posted in Conscious Relating - 4 replies

What does it mean to you to be loved?

aschleigh — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:50:51 GMT

Not, How do you know if you are loved?
But what is the personal meaning you have by being loved by others?

For instance, being loved makes me feel important. I am unique and I am important to the people that love me.
Being loved helps me grow. My niece Sadie ( 9) loves me, I should act in a way that honors that love by being a person that she can admire.
Being loved means I have responsibility to others. Being loved means that I am not alone, even if I feel lonely. Being loved means I can accept the things about me that I don't like so much, because I am loved for all of who I am, not just the good parts. Being loved means I am part of a great whole, ( a family, a spiritual community, etc..)

What does being loved mean to you?

posted in Conscious Relating - 8 replies

i fu&%ed up

SpiritAsJeff — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:34:38 GMT

i think one of the problems is that i think i am supposed to be above or beyond social or interactive faux pas (def: a slip or blunder in etiquette, manners, or conduct; an embarrassing social blunder or indiscretion). so when it happens, i feel really, really bad. (def: stupid, clumsy, unconscious, less-than, petty, did i mention stupid?)
ok so the thing is, i discovered recently i have a rather long standing resentment against someone, who happens to be a collegue. i have managed to put it aside since this person moved to another community some years ago. now shes back. and shes going to be teaching a class that i need to take, and facilitating a workshop im required to attend. as a result of another class im in, this came up, and my shit runneth over, via my mouth, and into the room in a way that then hurt another friend of mine, who is friends with the person i have the resentment against. now i have even more of a mess. and, theres confidentiality involved, so i cant really address this through the front door. in fact, im thinking the less i do the better at this point. sometimes i can look for something to fix, when its best to just let things be.
oh what fun it is to be in the village sometimes...

posted in Conscious Relating - 4 replies

"normal" or the absence of depression.

perpetual_Dawn — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:48:20 GMT

I have been suffering from a deep depression lately. I am in therapy. I have accepted taking the medication (albeit, begrudgingly) and cognitive therapy, health check ups and any other help I can get to heal.

Like many others, my depression is characterized with exceeding thoughts of guilt, shame, self criticism, extreme sensitivity, sleepiness or sleeplessness depending on the night, a lack of any appetite and thoughts (without any will or intention) of suicide. I feel although much of my destructive self has gained much power over my will trying to get out of this cycle... but I am a fighter, so I have hope to end this as soon as possible.

My question to you is what is it to feel healthy? Depression often takes a form of not allowing one to see a way out, or believing this has always been the way it is, and I have a difficult time envisioning myself as healthy and normal. In fact, I seem to not understand what it means to 'be normal' at all... and I understand this is different for everyone, but I thought I could use some help to understand and envision myself and my life as healthy and happy. A goal to reach for a healthy mentality.

Self doubt has clouded my judgments in this way, and I thought this tribe would have a good clear vision as to what healthy amounts to.
Thanks in advance.
Dawn

posted in Conscious Relating - 29 replies

A theory on wholeness, it's trippy , hear me out

aschleigh — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:40:08 GMT

So I was thinking, Why am I so desperate to have a good working relationship with everyone I love, and to have everyone I love be whole within themselves?
I remember someone saying that each person I love is a piece of me, a reflection of who I am.
Put those two together , and I want to be whole. I want all the pieces to come together in the puzzle.
I want all my connections to be strong and real. I want to see wholeness in each person I love, each person who reflects some part of me back to me.
I want the whole puzzle to come together. The puzzle being wholeness itself, but the wholeness me is a puzzle to ( within the larger puzzle)
My grandma is sick and dying. She is also a hurt, broken women. I am going to be losing this piece of me soon. It pains me that this women, a 4th of my DNA will never have the chance to become whole. She never will heal from her wounds in this life at least. She is a part of me. And each piece needs to be whole.
What do you think?

posted in Conscious Relating - 10 replies

whats going on with WOMEN (part one of many)

SpiritAsJeff — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:59:33 GMT

ok, though i understand the premise of other posts, i also sense a slight imbalance, so, lets talk about women shall we?
first, they dont seem to know what they want in a partner. actually they do; they want it all, but only in the correct portions and at the correct times. we're supposed to be manly and strong, but also sensitive and conscious. but not (necessarily) at the same time. you have to guess at the timing guys, and if youre wrong youre either a neanderthal or a wimp, basically screwed either way. we're also supposed to be bad boys, but committed and domestic too (if you dont contribute equally in the kitchen, youre just not a mod man), again not necessarily at the same time, but maybe if you can time it just right... nahh, wont happen. and if we do manage to pull off some kind of balance in ourselves between masculine and feminine - which seems to be the new ideal - and can love unconditionally and be self sufficient and honoring of individual paths, then we have a problem with commitment (while still having to keep that manly, provider, bad boy thing going). Even the empaths among us get so many mixed messages (women want primal man, but also evolved, sensitive man, so which is it?) that we're often on a slippery slope.
so i dont think its just about whats going on with MEN, i think its about whats going on with RELATIONSHIP... the models are changing, and its calling for both sexes to make some adjustments, often in long held beliefs, which can take time, and patience, and understanding... honestly i think we all have within us what it takes to have better relationships than we've ever had before... just going to take a little getting used to, a little flexibility and understanding and encouragement on both sides of the fence...

posted in Conscious Relating - 38 replies

What is going on with men part 2?

aschleigh — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:59:41 GMT

I am even more convinced than I was when I wrote the last thread that something is going on with men re: relationships particularly.
I know women have changed a lot in the last 30 years. I think men are having some real difficulty with these changes. I think how much build into her relationship giving up who she was, was in my grandma relationship. She is 78, and widowed. Her whole life was geared towards finding a man and making him a home and family, regardless of whether she wanted it or not. My mom gave up much in her relationships , but now in her third marriage seems have carved out a space for her pursuits , her husband who is older ( she is 58 and he is 67) doesn't like her being away for periods of time for her writing workshops or to be with me , but he deals with it. I am so stoked on being me that I would only be in a relationship that enhanced my life, I don't think I need to give up anything, except some independence to be more interdependent.
The guys I am meeting lately are not even wanting to broach a relationship , well into the dating process.( the sex, the companionship, etc.. is fine, it's the intention , the talk, the "relationship" stuff that is avoided) It seems people, couples are on-off more than on now. That it's easier in many ways to be single and have flings than to invest in a relationship. ( it might have always been that way) It seems like a real tough time being had by a lot of people in relationships now, men and women. Women are asking for more than we ever asked for, but very different things than we used to. Men are confused or hurt or angry or bewildered by these new standards.
Men what is going on?

posted in Conscious Relating - 21 replies

clean minds/clean relationships

margonaut — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:57:25 GMT

from the Relationships chapter of www.notimeforkarma.com:

"When we master relationships we will have mastered it all. When we stop giving our power away to people that we supposedly love but probably need, we will have recovered our power in every area of our life. Healing relationships is a very simple thing to discuss, but it is the most difficult lesson to do because we are working on releasing lifetimes of programming. It will take a great deal of vigilance, but being true to ourselves is all that is required to make our relationships work. Just pay attention, watch and pray.

What would happen if we could be in relationship with someone in a state of cosmic consciousness? We could not talk about our problems because we wouldn't experience any. Well, we may not be at a point of being totally cosmic with our partners but we can follow Emerson's advice "to become, act as if". Since we have traditionally used verbal communication to reinforce our separateness, not having anything to complain about presents a challenge. But now we will choose not to forget our source, God, and not to forget the big picture. Therefore we do not create repetitions of old problems by repeating old thoughts about them. Clean minds create clean relationships."

posted in Conscious Relating - 6 replies

gotta feel to heal...

gliSTenz — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:38:57 GMT

I see that alot of New Age psycho pop stuff and even spiritual teachings can be hindrances along the path..more information to bind oneself with instead of going within and listening to self to body...to heart...

In seeking for peace I sooo went out there for soo many years and though it has been eye opening and exciting I also see for me how easy it is to not trust my self but listen to gurus read books books books...and forget what it is that I need..in this moment...
My intellect easily rationalises something and then I miss the feeling behind it and it just keeps coming back bigger and louder until it cannot be brushed over in any guises of "understanding".

Recently Iam noticing how quick I still am to ..to feel wrong..in some challenging communication issues ..I have been working hard at telling myself this is not so..but I realise Iam missing the feeling...to acknowledge the feeling and feel it fully then it goes all by itself..and clears the way...some schools of thought say not to get stuck in the emotions(which I have a tendency towards) so I tend to do the opposite and not feel it at all...heh...
There is a delicate dance between choosing new behaviours that are not extreme..bcos one has been sitting in one way of being that it can be desirable to go to the other end of that..but it's the middle path that works and flows...yet Iam too aware that sometimes the metranome swings radically left to right right to left until it finds balance and that also is part of the process to be loved...

Through violent storms and peaceful dawns we find ourselves in balance...

posted in Conscious Relating - 0 replies

Shifting in relationships? When ? How?

aschleigh — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:03:08 GMT

I have noticed that I ( and most people ) spent a lot of time looking around for the right things in a person. I wanted him to be smart and funny and considerate . It's common and fine to look for things I want but in a way it's a powerless position in that I was hoping to just walk upon the "Right" combination of things in a person and then have it all work out.
I feel like a shift in me has taken place. Where I know still want those things in my partner, but I feel like the relationship we co-create is much more "under my control". which kind of sounds wrong, control is not the perfect word for it. But I could, can find a person with some of the qualities I am looking for and then together we can make a great relationship work. I have much more power over my actions now. I also don't need to constantly look for someone who is "perfect" for me. Just someone who I love and who is open and willing to do the process of intimacy.
Do you know what I mean? The focus have shifted from finding the right person to being able to give the right stuff ( mutual giving) in a relationship. In essence there is more of me in a relationship, more intention. I still have some things I am looking for, but there are less deal breakers. I feel this is a good shift, especially since just happening upon the perfect man/relationship didn't work .
When or ever did you experience this shift? Is it maturity? Does it happen to all of us? What's the next step?

posted in Conscious Relating - 2 replies

Disengagement

allure — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 04:06:07 GMT

It's as if I don't exist in your presence
speaking nothing but silence
that deafening air between us
do I not matter to you?
you, lost in a gaze
staring...at the tv
not in my eyes, as a lover would
I miss feeling like I was the center
of you universe, the life that pumped
through the veins of your love for me
when you would do anything to keep me
from walking out that door
that was so long ago
Where has that gone, dissolved away
in this lifeless thing we call a relationship
Disconnected by your self-centeredness
and disengaged by your apathy
You have taken me for granted once again
I am bored and I fear
I will be driven by desire
to seek my own entertainment
the entertainment of another

posted in Conscious Relating - 0 replies

Emotional Abuse

viiv — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:58:10 GMT

Oh...it was so nice to not have to post to this tribe for such a long time... Unfortunately, I am stuck, and could use some advice. I am in a relationship (coming up on about 1.5 years of seriousness, with another 1.5 years of casualness) that has it's ups and downs - the ups are amazing, the downs are almost debilitating. I recently figured out that my partner is emotionally abusive to me. I found this website, yadda yadda...it all adds up. Luckily, I have a really great life - super support from the best family and friends one could ever imagine. My self-esteem is great, I am confident and successful in most of my endeavours; and so the "abuse" has not affected me to an extent that is in any way damaging to who I am (yet).

My partner is extremely co-dependent. He projects like I have never seen before. He accuses me of being controlling, selfish, self-absorbed (in one instance, because I told him my friend was coming to town and I wanted some alone time with her, because we haven't seen each other for 6 years), and insensitive to him in general. I feel like I am nothing but honest, kind, and loving to him (of course, that might be an exaggeration, but I have nothing but good intentions). I bring food to his house almost nightly so we can cook together. I hang out with him in the evenings, which are generally my most creatively productive times of day, instead of doing my own thing, because that is the time he has to hang out. Some things we like to do together, others I'd prefer to do on my own, because they're not his thing. This is difficult for him.

Despite all of this, I love him very much. I know he had a bit of a rough time growing up, and as a result has huge trust and abandonment issues. I know those are the reasons he acts the way he does, and still I don't think it is a valid excuse. I don't want to stay in a relationship where I constantly feel like I have to meet my partners extremely high expectations, or walk on eggshells around him because I might say something that to me is innocuous and meant with good intention, but to him sounds like a diss or an insult. At the same time, I want to support him, and I want to help him overcome his issues so that we can work on building this relationship into a functional, mutually respectful and supportive one.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me (besides breaking up with him - while it's on my mind, my intention here is to seek out possible alternatives)? He will probably not be amenable to counseling (I have suggested couples counseling and he snorted at the idea). I thought of sending him to a shamen woman (who I respect), who might be able to help him see the things in life he needs to let go of. I don't know what other options I have. Any strong person out there who has been in the same situation and has been able to work through it with his or her partner, or has been able to adapt while still remaining an independent person with a strong sense of identity???

Any help would be super appreciated.
Thanks.

posted in Conscious Relating - 24 replies

Vulnerability ?

aschleigh — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 07:18:38 GMT

Vulnerability is the capacity or susceptibility to being hurt. The word vulnerable is also synonymous with the words openness and exposure. When a person is truly vulnerable there is an unobstructed entrance or view to the persons heart, being and soul. In the strongest or most enlightened person there is no protecting or concealing cover because the person needs none. Such people carry themselves in full view of others because they are not afraid of being hurt, because they are not afraid to suffer.

The most important key to finding love
is found in our willingness
and ability to be vulnerable.

Our ego (separate self) is that very edifice that we have fabricated to protect our hearts. It is the wall that all beings create on this planet to protect themselves from being hurt. We have incarnated onto this planet where all beings have suffered the pain of separation but we are promised salvation. Pain and suffering are Gods way of telling us we are doing something wrong with our life, something inexact with our consciousness. Pain and suffering have a purpose and when we can get in touch with that purpose our path in life tends to straighten itself out. Or at least we can eventually learn which way to go to begin our journey that one day will take us back to the full light of happiness.

One way out of suffering
is to see that it has been given to us
by life's greatest teacher.

Hurt is something our beings naturally feel. Hurt is the appropriate response of the human heart when attacked or misunderstood. When we betray the innocent and vulnerable nature of the pure heart we cause hurt. When we are born we have a great capacity to be hurt. Babies and young children are totally at the mercy of their environment, they are totally vulnerable, but slowly loose this after years of being repeatedly hurt and misunderstood. We slowly loose the vulnerability of being as we erect our ego or mental separate self. When Christ said that we needed to be born again he was referring to the reversing of this process.

When we betray the innocent and vulnerable
nature of the pure heart we cause hurt.
The separate mind is the betrayer of the
universe of heart and true being.

When we are vulnerable we put away the fancy airs we put on and drop our self-image, which is always hoping to look a little better than we actually feel. Any kind of spiritual self-image automatically blocks our vulnerability thus cutting off the heart and blocking us from the very thing that we want - love. When we do expose ourselves we become psychologically naked. This only happens when our defenses are down, when we are not worried that others will attack or judge us. Then we can be just who we are. But this is difficult because that is exactly what happens when we just are. People want us to be or feel or think something different. The paradox of vulnerability is that, though we can only be vulnerable when we are not worried that others will judge us, being vulnerable means openness to such an attack. In human relations no situation is completely safe when it comes to our vulnerabilities. In the beginning, when we first learn to open ourselves, it is prudent to pick the most gentle and caring people we can find to open our hearts with.

Christ's instructions for being born again were clear.
What he was talking about was that childlike quality of pure vulnerability.
This is the space of pure being.

That is why it takes courage and strength to be our naked vulnerable self. The path of vulnerability is for the strongest and it is for the most humble; those who remain closest to the ground because they are not secretly hoping to look a little better than they are. Humble vulnerable people do not walk around with a self image to protect, they feel what they feel and they share what they feel without shame. As we become more and more practiced in our vulnerability, our hearts expand and grow. The heart can grow so large and strong that eventually it cannot be hurt too badly. That is the strongest person, totally open to whatever comes. This is actually the ego less space, having no expectations and laying no demands on the universe. We open ourselves without fear and take whatever comes.

"To treasure vulnerable love is the first law of a pure heart."--Christopher Hills

After many years or incarnations of being closed in the heart, being vulnerable to other human beings can be terrifying. When we fall in love the first thing we do is open our heart, exposing our sensitivities, vulnerabilities; giving power to someone to wound or reject us with their insensitivity's or selfishness. This is why so many people are afraid to fall in love. In any situation, until the heart is used to being open, vulnerability initially feels like our heart is going to come right up through our throats.

When we first open the heart a river of feelings is released which swamps the mind and it's habitual defenses. We feel overwhelmed because our usual cool control is lost. The coolness of the separate personality is swept away as familiar ground moves from under our feet. Though most fear this moment, it is such a release, such a lightening of our load. Our real self is freed from the iron grip our ego normally holds over heart consciousness. Most egos are so rooted in their separateness that nothing short of the full fires of romance will due to reduce oneself to the vulnerable self. And then we usually make ourselves vulnerable to the one and only person who we have dared to fall in love with still excluding others; this thus makes our vulnerability slightly incomplete.

The head never really allows the heart to love.
Our fear of pain is stronger than our love of love.

We cannot begin to flow towards another person or towards our own higher or inner being until the psychic skin covering the heart is removed. The risk is great when we open because once we enter that vulnerable space, our head and it's games disappear. We lose our ego's protection, that hateful sense of separation is released and we feel that good feeling flowing. We crave that feeling of aliveness that comes from opening up. We feel safe once we are in this space. A welling up feeling fills our insides, a warmth and sense of caring or being cared for.

The pure in heart treasure vulnerability above all vibrations. A person tuned to love cherishes this space because he or she knows intuitively that this is what is most needed in human relations.

The purest heart has no mind.
The pure in heart is all heart.

The gift of vulnerable love far transcends the mental sharing of spiritual concepts and stories, no matter how profound they are. The head normally can't wait to advise. The heart, when listening to the inner world of another, listens, listens more, asks questions that draw a person out further, and thus shows a loving interest in the inner world of the other. Such a heart actually has the ability to get into the inner world of another because the heart feels and experiences no separation. When listening perfectly to the being of another, our being has the capacity to commune, to be at-one-with that other. The reunion of beings beyond the normal separate space of ego consciousness is a very beautiful thing when it happens.

My tears flow.
My being opens totally.

Vulnerability should not be confused with mental openness. It is very possible that someone could share the most intimate details of their life and still not be vulnerable. The difference lies in the vibration. Often in the beginning of relationships, people find it easier to be vulnerable about hurts and pains from the past, when in fact their real vulnerability has something more to do with feelings being generated in the moment. Expressing love or sexual attractions is often the most vulnerable issue at hand. Expressing these feelings leaves us exposed to others. When we share these feelings our relationships are quickly taken to deep and often intimate levels. And in these spaces, though we may suffer, we grow.

The purpose of our life here on this earth is to contact our being,
expand and grow our being by coming into a direct relationship with
the essence of our heart's true nature. And what is this true nature?
The heart is the vulnerability of being.

The most fascinating aspect of the Internet and digital communication is that people feel a lot more free to be vulnerable. They let their hair down and are more willing to be who and what they are or want to be. People are more willing to open up their dark secrets and confide in complete strangers. Though in fact few people are using their Internet connection as a spiritual tool for open hearted sharing, a growing network of therapists are beginning a great work of helping people heal from mental and emotional traumas that are so prevalent in human existence. They are finding it an incredible tool in assisting people open up and share what they are really thinking and feeling. This is something most people have an incredible difficulty with in open society and even with our friends communication is rarely taken onto the vulnerable level.

Mark Sircus Ac., OMD : an American living in Brazil, a doctor of Oriental and Biogenic medicine, a revolutionary and radical psychologist, as well as a body worker. Visit his site World Psychology which opens up a vast new framework with which to view ourselves, our lives, lovers, friends, children, work, education, medicine, ecology, sexuality - taking us in a modern way to the roots of our existence.

posted in Conscious Relating - 19 replies

'inter-course' - my favorite word because of it's natural meaning

caverly — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:19:13 GMT

i adore the grandeur, beauty and magnificence of the word "inter-course" .
i sense it means :
like 2 rivers flowing together , letting go of their boundaries and merging harmoniously as one :-}

posted in Conscious Relating - 1 reply

my friend was murdered...

Parvati — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 07:32:28 GMT

I had a beautiful fairy friend....
She was a shining spirit - full of life and creativity....
But most of all - she was the embodiment of Pure, Unconditional Love....
She loved everybody - always smiling - always saying "hello Love", "goodbye Love"...
Always singing "Love, Love, Love"....
Her life was a work of art and her being was pure inspiration and joy....
I loved her - everyone she ever met loved her....

Then I found out she was brutally murdered....
She was in Asia - home alone - someone tried to rob her - she fought back and was stabbed to death....
Grief, shock and disbelief overcame me....

I could not get my head around it - I could not believe that this could happen to one of the most wonderful people on this earth....
she did not deserve to go like this....
I could not imagine the fear and terror she must have felt with her last breath....
the thought of it made me physically ill....

I understand that we all must die....
and yes, it's tragic that she had to pass - her time had come - etc....
But NOT like this - how could someone so peaceful and full of unconditional love and light suffer her last day of life like this....
This can not be the way - this is just not fair - this can't be the way the universe works - it just can't.....

A week had passed after I heard the news...
I couldn't come to terms with it....
I was listening to a Pema Chodron discourse on audio....
I was deep in a meditative state...
Then Pema Chodron said "whatever you choose to be aware of - the universe will serve up the opposite to help you become more aware...
if you want to practice patience - the universe will give you irritating situations so you can become aware of your impatience....
if you want to practice mindfulness - the universe will give you mind-less situations so you can become more aware...."

At that moment I received a download from the universe....
My friend was murdered because she believed in unconditional love.... she WAS the embodiment of Unconditional Love...
so she was killed in the worst way in order for her soul to practice and forgive and unconditionally love her killer....
This was her soul lesson...
If she did - her soul would not come back to this earth plane as a human - but ascend to the next realm of Angels and Muses....
The universe always unfolds for our greatest good - to bring our souls closer to source....
The universe only gives you what you can handle.... and her soul must have been so close to pure that she could handle it....
otherwise it wouldn't have been so....

This was the message I received....
and at that moment I felt like I understood....
and an awesome presence of peace came over me....
"she can do it" - I thought... she can transcend....!
I wholeheartedly believed this message - I truly believed that she was liberated from the mortal bondage of death and re-birth and that she has now gone to somewhere higher - where her love and light could do so much more profound work than on this human realm...

Today they found her killer....
he sold the things he had stolen from her home for $300...
that was all her life was worth... 300 dollars....
And instantly, that peace I had felt before vanished....
Instead I heard a voice in my head telling me that what I had realized before - what I thought was a download from the universe - was just my mind's way of rationalizing this heinous crime.... because I could not emotionally handle her death....
The voice said that there is no justice in this universe....
and that my friends death was just a cold, cruel, accident - it could happen to anybody - it just happened to be one of the most precious creatures on the planet....

If this is true - if there really is no rhyme or reason - if it just happened to be wrong place - wrong time - then I am not sure I can go on...
Then this whole world is pointless.... and everything is just random....
and there is no use to try to love - to try to help - to try to heal....
if this could just "happen" - then there is no karma - no wrong or right....

I want to believe that what my insight from the universe revealed was real - that there is some sort of order to this universe - some sort of soul evolution - some sort of kind universally all-loving spirit that guides us for our highest and greatest good....
but my mind is telling me that it's just a big rationalization and that the universe just exists - it is indifferent - and doesn't really care one way or the other...
it just goes on....

I don't know which one is real anymore...
I don't know what is real anymore...
I don't know what the point of this existence is....

I am feeling confused, cynical and a bit schizophrenic by all of this....
any insights from this tribe will be a great help in helping me to sort this tragedy out and come to some sort of terms....
Thank you for just letting me blurt this all out...

posted in Conscious Relating - 7 replies

Conspiracy History compilation DVDs torrents

History — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:59:44 GMT

**************************************************

Greetings to all my relations.

This is the last step of our project History Watch. If History is
defined and known by the texts, we can now add to this definition the
recorded events of the filmed archives. Animated images are harder to
deny than printed words. Our objective is to spread out freely some of
the little broadcast, even hidden informations about our collective
History.

We put online a collection of 391 documentaries and other selected and
recut videos, to offer to a wide public the best of the infos
available on the net in english and in french. If you are interested,
you have the time, the right equipment and connection, all you have to
do is open the joint document and decompress it if needed (but normaly
your system should do it automaticaly). You'll find therein nine links
that will open the torrents for the nine DVDs we compiled (around 4.6
Gig each, for a total of a little over 41 G, being over 100 hours of
videos).

Otherwise, you can go directly to btjunkie.com and search for these titles.

11 Septembre 2001 - 9-11
Bush family & friends
Capitalist & Communist regimes
Capitalist conspiracy
Mind Kontrol - Secret Programs
New World Order - Secret Societies
Secret services - cover up - covert ops
Secret weapons - UFO
Terrorism Theories propaganda

Torrents are a system of peer to peer data transfer. The more people
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Please spread this out, take part in this action for social education
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For more info: watch.history@gmail.com History Watch

posted in Conscious Relating - 0 replies

Empathy: nature or nurture?

jessieq — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:03:29 GMT

Recently I have been examining something that I mostly have taken for granted my whole life: empathy; the ability to understand the feelings of others. This skill is so vital in connecting with people on any level beyond superficial.

I have been trying to empathize with one who lacks the ability to understand emotion, who seems completely out of touch with the feelings of others, and even lacks (or perhaps avoids) being in touch with their own feelings. I've been appalled by their responses to the most simple and beautifully stated expressions of how I feel and why, at times just way off the mark. I've been amazed at how much they fear relating on that level, seeing the knee jerk reactions at the first signs of any emotion. I've been frustrated after spelling things out, that they just don't get it. And so I am focusing on putting my energy towards transmuting my frustration into compassion.

What would it feel like to not be in touch with the feelings of others?
What would it be like to go through life unable to connect with people?
What would it be like to feel completely confused and disconnected when relating on an emotional level?

It's difficult for me to imagine not being able to understand the feelings of others let alone my own feelings. I can at least sympathize because I'm sure it must be a pretty miserable place not being able to connect. I really do feel for the emotionally retarded. I've always been able to make deep connections with people and have an abundant intimate network of friends and lovers.

I wonder, can empathy be developed? Or is it one of those things that's just present?

posted in Conscious Relating - 32 replies

Characteristics of a conscious marriage

aschleigh — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:14:42 GMT

Characteristics of a conscious marriage by Harville Hendricks
1. You realize that your love relationship has a hidden purpose-the healing of childhood wounds
2. You creaei a more accurate image of your partner
3. You take responsibilty for communicating your needs
4. You become more intentional in your interactions
5. You learn to value your partner's needs and wishes as highly as your own
6. You embrace the dark side of your personality ( your shadow)
7. You learn new techniques to satisfy your basic needs and desires
8. You search within yourself for the strengths and abilities you are lacking
9. You become more aware of your drive to be loving and whole and united with the universe.
10.You accept the difficult of creating a good marriage

Harville Hendricks says about 5% of marriages have these qualities. Now that I know these things I wonder if I would be able to settle for less.
What do you think about these characteristics? Does your marriage have them?

posted in Conscious Relating - 17 replies

David Deida

TantraTao — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:01:22 GMT

Hey peeps,

I'm thinking about doing this workshop with David Deida.
Any of you done one before? What's the 411?

Details: www.DeidaEvents.com.

TT

posted in Conscious Relating - 0 replies

Eckhart Tolle: models for approaching crisis and conflict..

zigo — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:49:08 GMT

great video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx526pO9UV0

posted in Conscious Relating - 2 replies

expressing anger in a healthy manner...

nonamae_agape — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:13:10 GMT

without getting caught up in it.

recently my husband went to a communication tools workshop. one of the concepts was around physically expressing anger to get it out in a healthy manner. for example: punching pillows, screaming into them, beating and grunting.

while i can respect that movement and connection with the body can help in moving the emotions through...i have some concerns. he's never been ok with anger. this is exploration for him. and i can respect that. however, where is the line? i know that when i went through a period in my life where i was veeery angry, i utilized tools like this. what i found was that initially it was helpful to finally get that emotion out, but eventually it started to become destructive. i became more angry, or it no longer satisfied the level of anger i felt. i also noticed that this affected the animals and people around me. i think that at a certain point it can become an escape because you don't really have to deal with anything but the raw emotion. obviously if you were to combine this with introspection or having dialogue that would be helpful.

but i'm worried about him becoming an angry person. since that workshop he has rigidly tried to impose the ideals of not being a hero to other people, taking responsibility and blame...and projected a lot. i'm trying to be understanding and trying to have conversations with him to check in and see where he is trying to bring in balance. i've voiced my concerns, but he's so angry at my fears that i feel discouraged and scared to continue. i'm really confused right now.

do i let him balance this out himself and just continue to express what i feel i need to as i need to and trust that it will balance out in the end?

i'd like to hear back from you. have you experienced this? what is healthy expression of anger anyhow? what's your take on this? where is the line?

thanks <3

posted in Conscious Relating - 37 replies

new tribe

Astrid_Seftali — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:54:32 GMT

I created a new tribe for Arabian love poems.
tribes.tribe.net/arabianlovepoems

posted in Conscious Relating - 0 replies

Noobie here!

Sugar — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 04:19:52 GMT

Just saying hello to all! I'm SO happy to be here!
SB

posted in Conscious Relating - 1 reply

What's going on with ...ME...?

rafaelO — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:48:03 GMT

is the more appropriate question for me...
the answer:

worrying about what others are doing or expecting from me, and imposing my expectations based on societal norms that are disfunctional from the individual, to the couple, to the family, to the culture, to the ecology of life....

I commit to my path of freedom, biss, joy, love, pleasure, pain,... the works.
my life experience as i see fit
my authentic face
my self generated joy.

this is enough work for me. along the way i encounter other people, men and women to whom i feel some attraction, be it intellectual, emotonal, spiritual, a friendship, a romance or just a good lay.
I share my path and observe the paths all the people in my path choose to take, and then offer to share similar legs of the journey with like minded people.
eventually i move on as i recognize that each of us in on either our own path, or someone elses path, and they usually divert from mine.

someday i will meet a woman that is not only mutually attractive to me in many aspects, including romantically and sexually, but also of creating a family.
untl then i just enjoy relating to others in whatever wayfeels best to me and this by default always involves a smile on the other persons face.

we need to have healthy relationships with ourselves in order to begin to pretend that we can have healthy relationships with others.

comments?

Rafael

posted in Conscious Relating - 8 replies

dealing with a thief and compulsive liar

Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:29:20 GMT

i'm seeking some suggestions, hoping there is some input still out there that i haven' t applied to this situation.

situation is:
i'm living with someone who steals and then lies about it when confronted.
yes, we are sure it is this person, yes, they have been confronted more then once. each time they play the ' it's not me' card' and the evidence is right there, either on them, near them or very obviously points to them. no one else did it.
i am very certain that this is happening, i'm not losing my mind and we have no little elves around the home.
the cat doesn't use these objects or hide them either.

my greatest disbelief turns to hurt more and more, that this person lies to my face. i'm in a sad state of what i'd call shock when this happens, i wish they would grow a spine and at least admit to it for some power, or simply asking would be even more empowering. i want to react out of anger..oh i do, i do, i've been at this for too long, but i try to be diplomatic about this issue.

things here are in the open, shared, yet everyone has their private and personal belongings too. we've made it clear more then once that trust and respect reside in this home.

yet this person keeps on doing this kind of behavioural loop and denying. they are a bad liar too.
please do not tell me to boot them out, legally i can't yet, nor is it financially possible at this point for them to live on their own.
this has been goin on for some time and nothing i do works in the long run.
any ideas how this can be resolved consciously?
can it be if the other is maybe unconscious of their actions and keeps forgetting the rules of respect of other people here and the home we share?
we've been dealing with this for years and i'm almost at the point that i've given up hope on this person.

thanks.

posted in Conscious Relating - 23 replies

Sexual Guilt? Well no wonder!

marleyjansen — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:25:00 GMT

I have to preface this by quoting a tribe I just found called...

"EX SEX ADDICTS & RECOVERING PORN ADDICTS"

-which is described as follows:

"This is for former sex addicts struggling with porn addiction
& want to strengthen their faith in Jesus, as Jesus is the only
way to break the saying, 'once an addict, always an addict!'

Come join me against the invisible fight against darkness,
so that we may come into the light of God's protection to live
as He would want us to live.

I know there are many out there in bondage.

Let's support each other, encourage each other & most of all
pray for each other, men & women alike as a real body of Christ
one day at a time."

*
...I'm not sure yet if this tribe is for real or not, but I'm sure I'll find out soon enough. Either way, I enjoyed this immensely, so whether you're totally offended by what you're about to read, or you feel like throwing me roses, you're welcome ;)

*
...Being educated in the science of Critical Thinking, can you say that there's no "struggle" if you're not *resisting*?

I've read the Bible and I don't recall Jesus ever saying "don't have sex". The closest sentiment I can recall Jesus (being quoted) as saying was, "Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself". That's pretty darn general and I wonder why God changed "His" tune after Soddom and Gomorrah? Or, is the Torah still in effect and that's the *true* story of why Christ got the Cross?

Does "addiction" count only if it's ruining your life? What if I think my life is totally awesome because of all the sex I have?

Is there a list of sorts someone here would like to provide that details all the parameters of "sex addiction"?

But if we're going to talk about Jesus and such, then let's get into whose "authorized account" we're *really* working with here. Last I checked, Jesus didn't actually *write* the Bible. For all any of us can know, the dude's been spinning in his grave these past 2000+ years because of all the mis-interpretations and poetic license his so-called followers could've taken as people *always have*. I mean, for chrissakes, look at what the official story is for 9/11! Do you think people were really so much more enlightened back in the *Iron Age*?

Who's to say that our lives haven't become hellish simply because we're taught to buy into so many beliefs that are totally contrary to the way the "True God" would want us to live: Free to enjoy the way we were made and meant to be!

Doesn't it strike *anyone* as conspicuous that we're the *only* species on the planet with religion and *we're* the ones taking it and everyone with us to Hell in a handbasket?

Hey, guess why we haven't found a Bible for any other species? BECAUSE THEY DON'T NEED ONE!

Do you ever see any other animals besides humans "living in sin"? Oh wait, that's right -they DON'T KNOW BETTER, right?

We say those dumb animals have no "free will", but there seems to be *plenty* of selective breeding and cooperation among all but ONE species. Have you ever seen an "ugly" animal? I'm not talking about what's beautiful compared to us, I'm talking about when you look at two individuals from the same species. Do you ever look at one German Shepherd and another and say, "Wow, that other is one ugly sonbitch!"

Maybe it would be more correct to say that Humans don't have free will, because look at how many people get ADDICTED to sex, drugs and drama! Remember? One definition of addiction is NOT HAVING CHOICE? I mean, it's pretty fucking pathetic if humans have this so-called "free will" because look at the CHOICES we've made!

Seriously, how do you think all the stupid and ugly people are managing to make it into each new generation? There's a moment when you're looking at that joint, that line of coke, that downhill descent, or that BUTT-UGLY loser at the other side of the bar, and there's a moment sanity's saying, "Fuck *that*!" But SOMEHOW, people end up listening to that other voice that says, "Fuck it, I just don't care because I'm too horny and lonely."

Oh, that's right, the DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!

As the story goes, the Woman blamed it on the Serpent and Man blamed it on the Woman like an unaccountable asshole rather than confronting the Woman and saying, "Hey, let's take this up with God before we go with what the Serpent said. He could've refused, but instead of copping to what a weak-minded dickhead he was, he BLAMED IT ON THE WOMAN!

Damn, and women *still* ended up being the one having to deal with the "joys" of motherhood! Okay, so is *that* why we refer to God in the masculine? I mean, there's NO WAY God would have let man get away with that if God was a Woman!

Anyway, back to "Free Will"...

For those of you who think animals "live in sin" because they don't know better or don't have free will, and you're STILL not convinced Man isn't out of his tree on this topic after what I've just written, then consider this:

If animals don't know better, then how is it they've managed NOT to fuck up the planet after all these tens of thousands of years (if you're a Fundamentalist) or billions of years (if you can tell by the plain, in your face, provable science of Natural History that Evolution *is* real) while we've managed to do more damage in the LAST CENTURY than all of prior *human* history? I mean the last most devastating thing that happened to this planet were the natural, unavoidable activities of asteroids and tectonic plates getting their groove on!

DON'T EVEN *THINK* about blaming it on the Serpent now Mr. Man. Your whole Point the Finger Game didn't fly back in Genesis. What, do you think The Almighty has ADD or that you somehow got *smarter* than the Maker since then?

Here's another clue for you Bible Thumpers:

Why would God *need* to have a Bible for us and NO other creature? I mean, if you believe the Bible was "inspired" by God, then you would HAVE to admit as well that God *intentionally* made us to be such screw-ups that we would need a "How To" book for living.

Who invented the word "Duh"? Man did. Oh, do you think *that* was inspired by someone sophisticated enough to invent our neo-cortex? Do you think it was invented by someone who conceived the plenum of our Universe? Do you think someone who could clap their hands and **BOOM!** Big Bang would trifle with something as pathetic and ridiculous as "duh"? The Bible says "In the Beginning was the Word". ...Well gosh people, I'm not sure what that word was, but I'll bet you it wasn't in ENGLISH; and wow, things sure have gone to shit since it was uttered anyway, hasn't it? Btw, did the "Word" exist *before* we created language or after? (hint, this is a trick question).

MY GOD, how did all those stupid heathens get by for so many millenia before we Got BIBLE? Imagine all those poor souls who had no choice but to go to Hell for eternal damnation until the Israelites conquered them and showed them the The One True God? Seriously, what kind of SADISTIC fucker would create humans just to pit them against each other and let *millions* suffer in ignorance only to end up being damned for eternity?

God is wrathful then loving. IMO, Mr. "Don't Spell My Name With Vowels" is BIPOLAR. (I'm eyeballing the laser-pointer on my shoulder now as my spidey-sense is telling me there's a lightning bolt heading my blasphemous way)

Okay, now before some putz starts getting the wrong notion here, I'm JUST PISSED, CONFUSED & VENTING as I SEARCH FOR THE **TRUTH**. But hey, no surprise there. After all, if I was made in God's image, then God has to be just as confused, bipolar and fucked up as I am!

So tell me about this "Invisible Fight Against Darkness". You see, I don't think it's really so invisible and that if you think it is, you're just not paying attention because it's written and spoken everywhere!

Yeah, people are in bondage -to IGNORANCE, LAZINESS and DENIAL, when they really just need to get tied up, gagged and blindfolded by a sexy goddess clad in vinyl.

Btw, don't you think it's pissing God off always referring to Her as *Him*? If God was a Man, we men would be the ones in stirrups suffering the pains of labor. It's that, or God is either a sadistic & vindictive ASSHOLE or a cowardly PUSSY to delegate that honor to the ladies. "Sugar & Spice & Everything Nice" -oh, whoops, except for the notion that men had in those good 'ol Bible Days that women were considered "unclean" when on their sacred Moon and barred from entering the Temple. Shit, yo, women weren't even allowed into the Holy of Holies, but we weren't complaining when our face was down there in Hers as she screamed out "Oh YHVH, OH YHVH!" were we? Noooo...

Why's our world so FUCKED UP? ---because men have inherited the insecurity and passive aggressiveness of their fathers of old who were totally intimidated by the power women have to go through the transformation and pains of Motherhood and still nurture that child when it's come into the world IN ADDITION to caring for our homes, family, and putting up with Mr. "Why Aren't You in the Mood -Are You Frigid or Going Lesbian On Me?"

...That, or all you fuckheads can give the rest of the world a break by starting to use the 6-inches of space God put between your ears for determining the difference between Man's stark-raving madness and Her Divine Majesty's Common Sense!

posted in Conscious Relating - 6 replies

quote on violations

margonaut — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:07:40 GMT

"Violations are like challenges. You only experience them when your greater self knows that you're ready to grow and has therefore sought out the perfect circumstances for your training. And just because you can't see the merit in the possibly cruel circumstances you've faced, doesn't mean that your own inner objectives haven't been met nor that you didn't seek out this lesson. It's not easy to see the perfection when we feel violated, but by understanding that there are no accidents, or no coincidences, or as I say to religious friends of mine, understanding that God doesn't make mistakes, we have to realize that everything always happens for reasons, and accepting this helps heal the pain."

-- Mike Dooley, from "Infinite Possibilities: Blessed Emotions"

posted in Conscious Relating - 55 replies

sugestions for closure ritual...

tigergypsy — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:59:22 GMT

i recently had a break up full of bittersweet heartache and would love to have a closing ritual...i have never done one before...Any sugestions on themes,movements or specifics would be appreciated....gratitude...stephen

posted in Conscious Relating - 9 replies

What do you think is going on with MEN?

aschleigh — Mon, 12 Nov 2007 06:32:12 GMT

I see some pretty interesting things going on with men lately. It might be that feminism has so seeped into the culture that boys are being raised differently than they were, or that women in general don't tolerate things that used to be tolerated. I work with 70% women at my non-profit and that 2 bosses are a man and a women. There are so many women in power at my place of work , it astounds me some days. I think of the men in my office, all of them who have a women as a direct supervisor. I think of the men I date and the men my friends date and it feels like something big is up. I can't seem to put my finger on it though. It's change, it's growth for sure. But there's a lot of insecurity too. Power is shifting. Relationships are changing. The old ways of being a man aren't working so well anymore. People in general are putting off committing to relationships until well into their 30's and 40's. Newsweek had an article about these rock Stars who were really into being stay at home dads now. Men are changing. Maybe they have always been changing but it seems like it's happening a lot now. What's is going on with men ? It looks intense.

posted in Conscious Relating - 61 replies

thank you everyone

Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:37:33 GMT

who has reached out to share in the time i have been in this tribe.
i want to say i've met some amazing allys here and received many wonderful gifts, one of them being the book nvc (non violent communication)
i highly reccomend it to those interested.

as far as myself goes in the past little wile, i feel like i've reached a plateau and i'm a tired of being told to let god, universe or whatever decide my fate and the fate of my child in the most recent post. or that everythng happens for a reason always and 100%.and such extreme statements.

i am totally aware of the power of the universe and some of it's laws that i've come to understand in lifetimes, i say this without arrogance, rather what experience has shown me.
i'm no novice here as far as all that universal greatness is involved and i chould lecture all for hrs on end about it as this has been my school of thought for yrs.
however, i'm here in this incarnation to learn to deal with the so called 'trivial' matters of the human experience.
it is not my goal to zen out, but to take responsibility and do the work.
i'm growing tired of the placebo solutions of universal theories.

when i ask for help i ask for facts that can be applied to his human experience.
to take responsibility is to take on these experiences and learn to deal with them with as many ways as possible to fit the right timing and situation for all parties to come out victorious...not dismissing with grand concepts. i don't need filler in my pursuit of solution.

hearing the universal theories is starting to highly aggrevate me, as i find it's going in circles, and i feel i need to remove myself from this tribe because it seems majority of you that post to my questions, threads are in that space. which is btw ok. it's ok to be you where you are at. this is not where i am at in my evolution however and it does not help me.

i would like more useful info i can apply to daily life.
i'm not asking for validation, human or universal. just tools. simple.

anyhooo, bless you all on your journey called life and remember to be kind to yourselves.
peace out!

posted in Conscious Relating - 8 replies

Rayann's parting comments

rayann — Sat, 24 Nov 2007 04:06:33 GMT

Well it has been a lovely 3 years or so with the conscious relating tribe. The idea of conscious relating is actually what brought me to the spiritual work I have been doing since then and opened up a whole new world for me.

Conscious relating has become a natural flow in my life, a well integrated practice. Questions that I once would have asked move through me like clockwork, conflicts are smooth, and lessons are still plentiful - as each person that comes before me is my teacher. And now my focus has shifted. I feel called to other work and am happy to make Noname the new moderator.

Parting suggestions:

1. For those who are asking "what should I do?" or telling the "he-said she -said" stories, I suggest that you use the support of this tribe to gather information, but that you ultimately trust yourself to act for your highest good. This trust will bring you the most ease and joy.

2. Notice when you are seeking validation. I have seen countless people come on here explaining a drama that has occurred in their lives, basically asking people to tell them that they are right. Giving validation on the internet is easy. It also may prevent people from facing the truth about their relating styles, about the pain that exists within them, and may keep them from some valuable lessons.

3. ask concise questions.
reciting a whole situation from your life often muddies the question. If you can not be clear on what your question is for yourself, how are others to be clear on it? Since we are only reading your perception of a situation full of your filters and biases reading it often does not help us and perpetuates a level that ultimately leads to misunderstanding and a lack of conscious relating. If a situation sparks a question in your mind, ask the question.

4. notice where your triggers are, and thank the person who triggered you for showing you something about your self.

5. Open your ears and read the posts with soft eyes releasing your judgments to the wind.

I will still be a member of the tribe and can be contacted directly with questions or comments. Best of luck to you all on this path of learning love.

rayann

posted in Conscious Relating - 5 replies

Healthy Love?

aschleigh — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 03:21:49 GMT

I thought of something , "My Love does not serve us, if it allows self destructive , self- sabotaging behaviours to flourish.".
What do you think? Sometimes I want to love no matter what, with all my heart, unconditionally. But what if my love doesn't serve if it allows bad behavior. It doesn't serve me to allow destructive behavior from someone into my life, it also doesn't serve them to tolerate their self-destructive behavior. That kind of "love" diminishes me and diminishes relationships. Real Love cultivates healthy behavior. It "rewards" healthy, life-affirming behavior so to speak.

posted in Conscious Relating - 6 replies

New relationship to anger.....

aschleigh — Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:10:58 GMT

So I was thinking, when I have been angry at people in the past it was because I didn't get what I want. I didn't get my expectations met and it pissed me off and I blamed the person . I needed the anger to seperate myself from that person and when I felt well seperated I stopped feeling the anger so much. ( and then I could feel the love again, in the case of my mom at least)

So now I am begining to think that when someone is angry with me, it doesn't have that much to do with me. They need it to separate or to not deal with the pain or to blame me for them not getting what they want. Regardless, it isn't me. I didn't DO Anything to them . Their anger is there's.
I am not angry with my ex-boyfriend anymore because I don't need to be. He is angry with me because he needs it still. I heal a bit faster because I do it consciously and I look for the purpose of the anger/pain in my life. I learned so much from this last relationship. Like my standards of honesty and monogamy are totally reasonable.( I tell that to everyone going in) I don't need to be angry he didn't live up to them anymore. And I don't need to need angry with someone just because they are angry with me. And that if someone is angry with me I don't have to beat myself up about it.
And I get to be extra thankfull for people like my mom, who stuck with me through the angry years ( there were many) .
What has made the difference with you and your relationship to anger? How do I go further from here?

posted in Conscious Relating - 5 replies

I have a hard time talking TO the person I am having conflict with....

HeatherBug — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:12:16 GMT

I talk to other people about them. It is like a complusion. When I feel like there is so much to be said I feel it is too heavy or too intense or that I just cannot agree or come to peace with the person it's about.... then I talk to my other friends about it.... Then when things feel better with the person, or i process with them, I feel really stupid and horrible for talking to other people about them. Then I feel like I have a secret, or something to hide from the person I was talking about.
Anyone else experience this? Or have some perspective on it? I'm just feeling like an asshole right now for doing it so much.

posted in Conscious Relating - 13 replies

Desire & discontent

allure — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:57:11 GMT

Strange thing this thing we call "Desire." Desire and longing is always coupled with disappointment and discontent. Once the object of our desire is obtained, it never is quite as fulfilling as we had build it up to be. Once we have finally tasted the very thing we longed for, we long for more...never fully satisfied.

posted in Conscious Relating - 4 replies

I NEED HELP!!!!

Benjiman — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 04:31:58 GMT

I am a young man of only 18 years....thousands of life times of experience in love and relationships mean nothing, if I have none in this one....

my mother's relationships have been absolutely horrible.....I have had no good relationship to look up to and have no idea were to begin..........

I am in....well lust...and longing...not love, though some days it may feel that way....,,, with a Young Woman in her 20's...I don't know her actual age...but age is relative to thought....so it doesn't actually matter...any way...she is the most wonderfully person I have met in a long long time...I want to start something but have no clue what so ever how to go about it....because we friends I'm afraid she would be weirded out and no longer want to hang out....but I suppose none of that really matters seeing as how I'm moving Hawaii soon...but I still want to tell her and I really could use some help on doing that....S.O.S........PLEASE HELP....

much love~Benjiman De Adibuddha

posted in Conscious Relating - 4 replies

expectations... from melody beattie

SpiritAsJeff — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:15:16 GMT

You are reading from the book The Language of Letting Go.
Melody Beattie

Expectations of Others

It is our job to identify our needs, and then determine a balanced way of getting those needs met. We ultimately expect our Higher
Power and the Universe - not one particular person - to be our source.

It is unreasonable to expect anyone to be able or willing to meet our every request. We are responsible for asking for what we want and need. It's the other person's responsibility to freely choose whether or not to respond to our request. If we try to coerce or force another to be there for us, that's controlling.

There's a difference between asking and demanding. We want love that is freely given.

It is unreasonable and unhealthy to expect one person to be the source for meeting all our needs. Ultimately, we will become angry and resentful, maybe even punishing, toward that person for not supporting us as we expected.

It is reasonable to have certain and well defined expectations of our spouse, children, and friends.

If a person cannot or will not be there for us, then we need to take responsibility for ourselves in that relationship. We may need to set a boundary, alter our expectations, or change the limits of the relationship to accommodate that person's unavailability. We do this for ourselves.

It is reasonable to sprinkle our wants and needs around and to be realistic about how much we ask or expect of any particular person. We can trust ourselves to know what's reasonable.

The issue of expectations goes back to knowing that we are responsible for identifying our needs, believing they deserve to get met, and discover an appropriate, satisfactory way to do that in our life.

posted in Conscious Relating - 8 replies

are you doing december cleaning?

rayann — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:57:37 GMT

Waves of holdings of the past, small and large make their way to the surface for so many in these final weeks of December. "Hello! we are still here!" They say. How perfect the universe is to draw our awareness to the pain bubbles, resistance pockets by bringing up all kinds of stuff for people at this time. Now that you see it, do you want to take it into next year's cycle with you?

A small pinprick of pain from a momentary rejection or a long story of poor me - whatever it is, does it serve you?
Have you learned the lesson that was offered to you and are you ready to remember it with non judgment, or does holding the pain a little longer still serve you?

Perhaps make a list of painful memories, things that you are holding, and decide which ones you would like to release. If they are not brought into the light, how will you see their power over you (or lack thereof)?

Sometimes we are ready to let go, sometimes not - but make it a conscious choice and your next year's cycle will set you exponentially more free.

posted in Conscious Relating - 5 replies

This world is so opposite

aschleigh — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:01:47 GMT

I noticed today that people are often a lot more comfortable when I am being mean to them. Well not mean but sarcastic or short or abrupt with them. When I am nice and do nice things for people they seem to think it's weird.
I know it works on women, I've heard men say you need to treat women a bit mean . It seems to work on men too. The guys i have tried to be nice to seem to get over whelmed and disapear. The ones I have been not that into and probably not considerate of tend to stick around.
It's so weird, it's reverse pyschology.
Why do people respond to meaness more than kindness?

posted in Conscious Relating - 15 replies

Whar is depth?

aschleigh — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:51:02 GMT

What is really deep for you? What do you think is at the depth of your soul?

For instance I think comitment is deep. It is so deep you can't see the bottom, you just have to wade in and start swimming. I know when I committed to loving my boyfriend ( we are no longer together ) it brought up all sorts of icky stuff , but I knew I had to keep going through to get to the other side. The inner comitment ( he didn't committ to me , so it wasn't mutual) it shifted something in me. I also find that if I comitt to a place, I tend to really be here more than If I'm wishy washy, " I may move in a year, I may not" . So now I am committed to Los Angeles at least for 2 years if not more. I know a mother's love is deep, again the comitment and the shift must be massive.
Connection is deep. Connection is everything ofcourse. But the connection that two people can have in a moment can be very deep.
Knowing that there is a level of life that is all one and all exactly as it should be is deep. Forgiveness is deep, it has something to do with that level where everything is perfect I think.
Rumi said , " what you wish for at your deepest level is what you already are" . I must already be comitment, connection and forgiveness on another level.
What is deep for you?

posted in Conscious Relating - 3 replies

Quotes

abeanstalk — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:31:00 GMT

To my friend on this tribe,
I hope your season is a good one:

Too much of too much is too much
Alex Toth

If you don't plant at planting time, you can't harvest at harvest time.

You can change without growing, but you cannot grow without changing.

Life is hard, but it is harder if you're stupid.

Anything you try to fix will take longer and cost more than you thought.

A short cut is the distance between two points.

Many are called, few are chosen.

Those who sow in tears shall reap in joy. -Psalms 126.5

In spite of it all, Murphy was an optimist.

We are lost, but we are not a lost cause.

Faith is stronger than reality, it creates reality. (The revolt begins)

Anger is poison, and expecting the other person to die. -Rabbi Packouz

Life is a series of adjustments.

Change your thoughts, change your life -Dr. Wayne Dyer

posted in Conscious Relating - 1 reply

Choosing Disengagement..... ???!!!???

alegria-sita — Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:50:41 GMT

Argh!!!

A former love of a long time has recently adopted a choice to stop interacting/talking/acknowledging me. We've had very little discussion about the why of his decision... and the practice has grown into complete removal from my presence at all times. In very vague emails, he's expressed that I should know the "why" behind his decisions... I am completely unclear about it. I have some ideas, which I've expressed... but it's clear that his decision also includes NO desire to work through it, as my guesses have been met with statements like, "your not knowing why is part of the whole thing.".

I honor his choice to take space, disengage, etc. as in the past, this has also been a strategy of my own in challenging relations. I believe in taking space, and I have compassion for him as he takes care of himself the best he knows how. Our relationship has a history of constant challenge... and on many levels I imagine that his choice is also serving me and my healing as well....

What I'm wondering, tho... is about this perpetual feeling of a pulling/tugging that is triggered by this strategy whenever I'm in his presence. When I'm not around him, it doesn't affect me. But when we happen upon one another, and he says hello to everyone around me, and leaves the circle without any acknowledgement of my presence, I feel this insane pull in my stomach. An aching pain of desperation, that immediately sends me on a head trip of strategizing how I might go about bridging the divide... and yet... I remain dedicated to honoring his clear need for space. We've not been together for year(s), and yet there's still so much (unresolved) energy.

In the time we've not been together, I've done quite a bit of "work" on myself... practicing taking responsibility of all in my world, practicing nonviolent communication, etc, etc. I'm no longer the person I was when we were together.

In an email I sent to him, I let him know that I did not have any desire to "push myself on him" by calling, emailing, etc while he's choosing not to communciate. but that I would love to connect when he's ready. I made it clear that I am leaving it up to him to contact me when/if he decides he'd like to communicate.

Any ideas/suggestions on how I might go about making peace & resolution within myself around this need to connect & clear the air with someone who is choosing disengagement? How can I take responsibility here? How do I ACCEPT his choice with LOVE and SUPPORT?

posted in Conscious Relating - 41 replies

Instant Attraction

aanais — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:59:30 GMT

Hi y’all,

Can you share stories of instant attraction
How it felt at the time
and where it led to?

posted in Conscious Relating - 15 replies

Are you a Mystic , please join us for the love of Mankind

dominic — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:22:45 GMT

COMMONALITY AMONGST THE WORLD'S MYSTICS:

If you study the life of past mystics you'll find they share several things in common:

First, they all speak of an induction – or of a need to learn/realize a new level of understanding. They all speak of a fundamental shift in consciousness (be it called awakening, realization, divination, or being born again).

Second they all tell of making a journey into and through a despair process of being “undone” as the precursor to this fundamental shift in consciousness -- be it through experiencing 40 days and nights in the wilderness, starving under the boddhi tree, facing the dark night of the soul, or the hero’s journey. There is a Journey of metamorphosis that all mystics have undergone in some way.

Third, it is an inner journey that must be taken up and navigated alone. This is a hallmark of the mystic’s realization: The reason the journey must be alone is because that which must be faced, seen, and surrendered in order that something new can emerge, is only possible through sustaining the fear and despair process of being alone and meeting the ultimate and fundamental fear of “non-being” and annihilation.

Fourth, they all seem to realize the frustration of being misunderstood by those who have not yet been through the awakening journey -- “those who have ears to hear, let him hear.” A great deal of the mystical writings are devoted almost exclusively to the fact that fundamental spiritual truth cannot be understood by the intellect nor correctly put into words. Forever, the great spiritual teachers have tried through the insufficiency of words to point toward that which can ever and only be experienced and known on a level that is before and beyond the mind. This is something unfathomable to those who have not yet had this breakthrough revelation - and particularly so in our contemporary culture that has become so overly reliant and blinded by the limiting paradigm of the scientific method that forever reduces our understanding of intelligence to that which is sensory, measurable and linear in nature. (...Life isn't (only or always) linear .. In fact it rarely is, except in man-made constructions and habituated uses of the mind.)

Please join us at this forum
http://groups.msn.com/TheInternationalMysticalOrderofKnightTemplars/_whatsnew.msnw

posted in Conscious Relating - 0 replies

welcome nonamee

waveyoga — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:37:25 GMT

Hello,

Can you tell us soemthing about yourself?

posted in Conscious Relating - 0 replies

Conscious or Intentional Gifts

Shama — Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:43:10 GMT

Wanting to celebrate my family and friends this year with "Intentional" gifts.
any suggestions for thoughtful websites?

namaste

posted in Conscious Relating - 4 replies

quotes an sayings that U know ring TRUTH for you yet...

gliSTenz — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 04:28:50 GMT

they irritate the hell out of you and there's an aversion to that knowing...;0)(to to narcissus anyway!)

this bit of writing i find challenging and yet also hold in high regard as a touching stone to my own honesty with self..when i seek to blame or seek to disown my reality...which happens at times..;0)

when it is the other person who is not doing enough or when situations outside yourself consistently do not provide enough,the dilemma is not one of not enough other,it is a dilemma of not enough self,or not enough trust and security in your feelings of self...

this world is based on co-dependency...and I often find myself wondering about those 3 roles we like to play in this co-creation with each other.. of victim...caregiver and perpetrator...I remember how aghast I was when looking at these 3 and realising I played them all well....;0)

what little things remind you to pull your head in and come back to self?

posted in Conscious Relating - 5 replies

A Week with my mom

aschleigh — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:43:05 GMT

I just spent a week with my mom. And it was basically good. We have had some rocky times, lately we have been getting along. She comes out here to LA from New Hampshire for thanksgiving to see me. Leaving her needy husband to his own devices for the week. We are close, She still tells me what to do, how to drive, how I should dress, etc... It is how she knows how to take care of me. It gets on my nerves but less so than it has in the past. She seems older ( 57 ) than usual. I don't think her marriage is great, but it's stable and that's better than her first 2 marriages were.
Anyway, I realized that I keep looking to her for something. Like guidance . I want her to be able to set an example for me. She had taught me a lot. Lots about independence and strength. So much. But what I need to learn now is : How to be really happy. And she won't be able to teach me something that she doesn't really know . It's sad a bit to realize that I am doing just as well if not better than my mom is many ways. Emotionally, mentally, financially, spiritually. She exercises more than I do. I get frustrated with her because she's just a person. Still my mom but not so Huge like she used to be to me. It feels better to me to have someone in my life I can really admire. But it keeps turning out that people are just as real and struggling and insecure as I am, if not way more in many cases. Perhaps I am starting a new phase in my life where I am the leader. There is a temp at work who asks me all these questions, and sometimes I look at him like, " who does he think I am, I have NO answers" . Life is weird.
How do you deal with your mom ( or dad) being an equal or ( ghast ) coming to you for answers?

posted in Conscious Relating - 2 replies

mirror mirror

margonaut — Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:31:01 GMT

from
Arnold M. Patent's Universal Principles @
http://www.arnoldpatent.com/universal-principles.html

"Every relationship in our lives reflects our relationship with ourselves. Every person we attract is there to support us in opening our hearts and reclaiming our power.

When we feel love for ourselves, and the perfection of ourselves, just the way we are, we attract loving and harmonious relationships with other people."

posted in Conscious Relating - 3 replies

please view and vote for my bumper sticker campaign at Brickfish :)

Elizabeth — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:08:30 GMT

Hey all, it's Liz here. Well I'm trying to win this scholarship competition, where you have to design a bumper sticker. Here is the url for you to check it out:

http://www.brickfish.com/Pages/PhotosAlbums/PhotoView.aspx?picid=125398_80647803&=PPIMEMAIL&isep=1&pbapi=161745&pbvi=6301779

The more votes I get, the better I do. Please take some time quickly to review and vote for my bumper sticker, maybe I can win with your help!

Peace
Liz

posted in Conscious Relating - 2 replies

believing you deserve it

margonaut — Sun, 19 Aug 2007 06:34:49 GMT

today I realized that what has largely been holding me back from success in relationships (and other areas of my life)
was a hidden belief that I somehow did not deserve it

does anyone have stories around what happens when you shift away from carrying that particular self-defeating belief?

posted in Conscious Relating - 17 replies

Love - an Obsession?

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:55:46 GMT

Sometimes I wonder.... when attraction works out and one finds out that one has more in common than just attraction - love could develop... But, I have seen people so absorbed into one another that they forget everything around them, even their responsibilities and friends are forgotten. However, when things don't work out, and one can't let go right away one is often considered "obsessed." "letting go" isn't always so easy.

Either way, I find it possible that both kinds of love, the one which may work out and the one which may not work out, can at times be an "obsession. " Just the ending differes (happy ending vs. unhappy ending).

I sure wonder, what will it take to learn to fully feed from out internal soul and be so rich that when somebody comes along and love evolves, we basically have the same love for one and all at the end.

What do you think, when is love not an obsession and when is love = "true love?"

posted in Conscious Relating - 16 replies

reviving trust

nonamae_agape — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:00:49 GMT

how do you revive trust after years of pain with a partner?

we both wish to be together in a healthy comfortable safe relationship...but past pain keeps resurfacing and it all comes back to trust.

i can't speak for him...but on my end i'm terribly afraid. my experience has shown me that when i do open up and put my heart on the line to trust and commit to the healing process (which i believe is necessary) i get hurt. i suspect that this happens because he feels safe expressing difficult subjects when i'm finally in that state. however, it is so painful i tend to shut down to protect my heart. i recoil.

then i see that my fear, anger and pain keep me from trusting him with my emotions. i'm married and yet i feel deep in my gut that someday he's going to leave me behind and move onto the next stage. perhaps it's because i think that his growth process is much quicker than mine. i don't really know. there is so much to this and it seems complicated when i'm knee deep in it.

i thought perhaps i would be able to get some perspective here...since i value everyone's input from this tribe in particular. honestly i wish i could just leap into trusting him...but i've seen through trying this route that it isn't sustainable. i want to authentically trust him...

i feel scared, confused, and i'm just at a loss. thanks in advance for your input.

<3

posted in Conscious Relating - 11 replies

Golden Moments

Debbie — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:21:15 GMT

Have any of you had a perfect Golden Moment you would like to share? My definition of a Golden Moment is a moment in time when everything is perfectly right with the world. It is a moment of deep calm, and quiet. It takes you away into another dimension where only goodness, love, and serenity exist and you are happy, at peace, feeling spiritual, weightless, and free, and it holds you there for a moment in time. The world stops for you and you are swept into a surreal peace where nothing else exists but the beauty of that moment. It is an experience absorbed into your mind, body, and soul, and deep within your heart, to be held in keeping. It becomes a memory often brought back alive when times are tough to help you escape back to the splendor of that perfect moment. It is a true gift to cherish for a lifetime.

posted in Conscious Relating - 0 replies

Dealing with mean, insensitive, judgmental (fill in the blank) people.

lori — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:06:34 GMT

I have finally accepted that some people are just not friendly, kind, respectful, etc. (I'm stubborn and a slow learner at times). I've also come to realize that sometimes avoiding these kind of people is too much work and deprives me of situations I enjoy. I need a remedial course in dealing with mean people! I guess the bottom line is it does suck but they're out there, how do you deal with them? If anyone knows any good books, websites, I would love to hear about it. How did you learn to deal with mean people?

posted in Conscious Relating - 38 replies

Living wide open despite social tact...where is the line?

nonamae_agape — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:50:48 GMT

A thought that came up for me during a writing exercise this week is one that has come up for me many times over the last several years in my search to live truthfully.

I have this idea of living wide open. And I mean wide open, despite social tact. To be able to speak the truth when asked no matter what. To be able to do this in a compassionate way. To be so strong in myself that I exude calming strength in the face of situations or people that would normally shake me.

A couple years back, after reading The Power of Intention, I went through a 3 month period where I was on an unconditional love high. I'd never experienced anything like it before. I, literally, knew with all certainty that someone could do the worst to me and I would still love them. That I could be raped and moments away from death and I would still say I saw the light of consciousness in them. I knew I could. I believe we are shown these heights to show us we have the ability to reach them. And we hit our lows in these cycles to understand where we need to shed light to reach a new level.

Is living wide open really a possibility? When is it ok to bypass social tact and be completely ourselves? I know that to do this we would need to be able to accept the same from others, but I just wonder if we really can do this. I always seem to allow myself to get derailed only able to hold onto that open love for a time before the situation or person weighs on me...or until some social situation presents itself where I don't know that it's appropriate that I really express the truth.

I understand not forcing something in a moment where it's not needed. I'm not talking about being opinionated, or speaking out every time you see a situation that calls for truth. I understand those subtleties. Is what I'm saying coming across clearly?

...your thoughts?

posted in Conscious Relating - 18 replies