Emotional Abuse

topic posted Fri, January 25, 2008 - 6:58 PM by  Vi
Oh...it was so nice to not have to post to this tribe for such a long time... Unfortunately, I am stuck, and could use some advice. I am in a relationship (coming up on about 1.5 years of seriousness, with another 1.5 years of casualness) that has it's ups and downs - the ups are amazing, the downs are almost debilitating. I recently figured out that my partner is emotionally abusive to me. I found this website, yadda yadda...it all adds up. Luckily, I have a really great life - super support from the best family and friends one could ever imagine. My self-esteem is great, I am confident and successful in most of my endeavours; and so the "abuse" has not affected me to an extent that is in any way damaging to who I am (yet).

My partner is extremely co-dependent. He projects like I have never seen before. He accuses me of being controlling, selfish, self-absorbed (in one instance, because I told him my friend was coming to town and I wanted some alone time with her, because we haven't seen each other for 6 years), and insensitive to him in general. I feel like I am nothing but honest, kind, and loving to him (of course, that might be an exaggeration, but I have nothing but good intentions). I bring food to his house almost nightly so we can cook together. I hang out with him in the evenings, which are generally my most creatively productive times of day, instead of doing my own thing, because that is the time he has to hang out. Some things we like to do together, others I'd prefer to do on my own, because they're not his thing. This is difficult for him.

Despite all of this, I love him very much. I know he had a bit of a rough time growing up, and as a result has huge trust and abandonment issues. I know those are the reasons he acts the way he does, and still I don't think it is a valid excuse. I don't want to stay in a relationship where I constantly feel like I have to meet my partners extremely high expectations, or walk on eggshells around him because I might say something that to me is innocuous and meant with good intention, but to him sounds like a diss or an insult. At the same time, I want to support him, and I want to help him overcome his issues so that we can work on building this relationship into a functional, mutually respectful and supportive one.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me (besides breaking up with him - while it's on my mind, my intention here is to seek out possible alternatives)? He will probably not be amenable to counseling (I have suggested couples counseling and he snorted at the idea). I thought of sending him to a shamen woman (who I respect), who might be able to help him see the things in life he needs to let go of. I don't know what other options I have. Any strong person out there who has been in the same situation and has been able to work through it with his or her partner, or has been able to adapt while still remaining an independent person with a strong sense of identity???

Any help would be super appreciated.
Thanks.
posted by:
Vi
offline Vi
Seattle
  • Re: Emotional Abuse

    Fri, January 25, 2008 - 7:24 PM
    Dear Vi,
    I am going to be honest with you.

    Your word s sound like those of many women who are complacent in letting another take over their life which I have read and read in many books and case studies.

    You do not have to bring food to his house. He can buy food or take a bus or send out for delivery. You do not have to hang out with him when it's your creativ peak time. People hav ecoffee together in ornings to hang out. People meet for lunch. They hav eshor t dinners. they stay apart.

    You owe yourself your time and food.

    That said, how do you think you lov him> It honestly sounds like you lov giving up who you are to be in a relationship.. in a way you may be using him as a convenient excuse to nto do your creativ ework.

    Please step back a bit from this relationship and be who you really are. He will survive 5 nights a wek without you. He can call ou tfor pizza.. or open a can of beans or a snack pack.

    I do wish you well. I am NOT tryign to hurt you. I did state I was being honest and direct. I am.

    Take good care.. and write in a few weeks when or if things change or stay the same.
  • Re: Emotional Abuse

    Fri, January 25, 2008 - 8:53 PM
    I would suggest that at the point he becomes controlling or abusive, you simply point it out and disengage for a time. It's not going to work to get into a shouting match or (apparently) to try and get him help. So just state the case, from your perspective: "I don't think I deserve to be spoken to/treated like this, so I'm going to go now. I'll be available when you decide to treat me respectfully" - or something like that. He may argue about it, but you can lovingly insist that for the time being, it is not okay to be together. This gives him a chance to learn what _your_ needs are, and then his behavior is up to him.

    What's important is that you don't just further enable him to act out from his damaged past. Everyone has their issues, but to let his define your life would be silly, not to mention counterproductive for both of you.
  • Re: Emotional Abuse

    Fri, January 25, 2008 - 9:35 PM
    In all honesty ... I think that what is necessary here is more and/or better communication. One can have all the best intentions in the world, but if they are taken the wrong way or totally rub a person the wrong way, those best intentions can be a really bad thing.

    That said ... you spend your peak creative time with him. You spend this, that and the other time with him. What happens if you don't spend that time with him? Does he get angry about that, too?

    What I think needs to happen is you sit down and have a long talk. A lot of people aren't willing to sit down and have this long talk, though ... especially the one receiving the talk. If this is the case, catch him at a time when he is sitting on the toilet. Then you have a captive audience that cannot just get up and walk away. :) Tell him how you feel. Tell him of the sacrifices you make. More importantly, ask him how he feels and what exactly it is that he wants and/or expects from you. I feel that only then can the healing begin.

    I've been in this (seeming, anyway) type of relationship before. It was reversed, though, in that it was the woman who didn't know what she wanted from me. She said she "just wanted to be happy". I'm okay with that .... but she was never happy with anything I did and she'd get angry when I'd ask her what she wanted. One day, I just asked her point blank ... what will make you happy? She says ... "I don't know, keep trying stuff." That was the end of the relationship. Why? Because it meant, at least to me, that she didn't know what was going to make her happy so I would spend the rest of my life trying to make her happy and it would never happen. Why? Because I'm not her father and she's not her mother. She has this unreasonable idea that her parents are the ideal relationship and everyone should be just like them. While her parents are great people and have been married 60 or so years, everyone is not them and what works for them may not work for everyone else. It certainly doesn't work for me.

    She didn't understand (maybe she couldn't ... I don't know) that I am an individual with my own thoughts, feelings, ideas, goals, wants, needs and life. While spending time with her was nice, being treated like a 5 year old wasn't good for me. I don't need anyone checking with me every 5 minutes to see if I need to use the bathroom. If I have to go, I am big and strong enough to just get up and go. I'm not bed ridden or too heavy to get myself onto or off of the floor. She says "I just care about you". I say ... "if you care about me, start listening to what I say". She hears me, but doesn't listen ... it goes in one ear and out the other... which to me says she really can't hear what I say... or she's so determined to give me what she wants me to have that it doesn't matter what I want or need. Is that love?

    She, too, accused me of being emotionally abusive. I don't think that I was, but it doesn't matter what I think... at least not in her mind. What matters is what she thinks. She was angry when I broke it off, but I just couldn't deal anymore. I'm not suggesting that you break off your relationship. You are an adult who is fully capable of making that decision when the time is right for you. What I am asking is ... how much of this "emotional abuse" is just a lack of quality communication? Only time will tell.
    • Vi
      Vi
      offline 55

      Re: Emotional Abuse

      Fri, January 25, 2008 - 10:47 PM
      Thanks, everyone, for your input. Whether, you are absolutely right about needing to end a conversation when it starts to become abusive. I have realized this, and have made the point to try, but I definitely need more practice. As much as I hate drama, it's very easy to get sucked in. I am well-trained in non-violent communication (as is he), and when words start to fly, I tend to respond by telling him that his insults are not going to help us solve the problem, that they are simply hurtful to me, and making things worse. I encourage him to tell me what he feels and what I have done to make him feel that way - he has responded (somewhat) to this, and we definitely need to work on it some more.

      He and I have tried to have the long conversation, and what it seems to come down to is that we see things very differently. I see wanting to hang out with my friends, or doing my own thing as a healthy way to spend time apart - it gives me the chance to miss him, and I like that feeling. While he is not at all consistently angry when I want to do my own thing, he does tend to take it personally. For instance, my sister and I have been dreaming for years of going to India together someday, just the 2 of us. When we talked about it in front of him, he was visibly upset by the fact that we wouldn't invite him along. I think it's healthy for couples to do their own thing, as well as to do things with and for each other. He sees me wanting to hang out with a good friend for a week, and inviting him along with us when he gets off work, as putting him third, and considering him as an afterthought, when really I simply want us all to have a good time together. Of course I want him to come along, and I've told him this. At the same time, if he is going to come along and be angry because we are not doing exactly what he wants to be doing (and this has happened many times before), then I'd rather he do his own thing instead. I agree that we need to talk about this more. And I know his reactions stem from his past relationships. I'm trying to be sensitive, it's just that it's so hard to know what's going to be taken the wrong way because I try and put things in a way that to me would be impossible to hear negatively.

      That's a little rambly - I'm fighting off a fever, so forgive my disjointedness...
      • Re: Emotional Abuse

        Sat, January 26, 2008 - 8:07 AM
        From my experience I've found that some people define their relationship in terms of being together, doing things together all of the time. This is why they're in a relationship. It can carry a lot of limitations with it unless both people are committed to that sort of relationship. It sounds to me that this is where he's coming from. Perhaps he sees you wanting to do things without him as a betrayal of the relationship. In which case I'd suggest that maybe the two of you have a different understanding of what sort of a relationship this is.
        Many couples I know relish the freedom to do things separately with one another's full blessing. The idea being that their relationship allows them a freedom beyond what they could experience as being single. It's when you mix one person from either side of this equation that you run into trouble, i think.
        Personally my partner and I love spending lots of time together and then going out to parties, or dancing or dinner with friends or whatever, on our own.
        I found being alone when I was single to be really uncomfortable at times. Now I love it. I can enjoy and appreciate my time alone because I know she's coming back.
        • Re: Emotional Abuse

          Sat, January 26, 2008 - 9:09 AM
          Can the couples counseling issue be broached like " I need us to go to counseling if I am to stay in this relationship. I need some things to change and I think we need help to make those changes happen" ?
        • Re: Emotional Abuse

          Sun, January 27, 2008 - 4:12 PM
          Shpr, you put it much mor enicely than I did.
          I amsingle now and love it. I am so busy being with many different groups of friends that I am very blessed.
          I am also trying to date to fidn someone to relate with in a more committed way. As I am moving thisis not seeming to happen right now.
          Mayeb later.

          Thank you again for your softer touch.
      • Re: Emotional Abuse

        Sat, January 26, 2008 - 8:12 PM
        Vi - Glad to hear you know NVC - that's got to be a huge plus in terms of communication. As you say, however, it's not a guarantee against getting sucked in. Hopefully, if your partner is also well-versed in it, then he understands when you end the conversation for the time being. The other stuff - his comfort edges and possessiveness - can be acknowledged and dealt with in time, as long as you both decide to keep working on the relationship - for your _mutual_ satisfaction.

        cathy q - While I understand where you're coming from, it sounds like you may be projecting some of your own bad experiences here. Do you really think it's possible to judge things accurately from a tribe post? I doubt it. And while giving someone the benefit of the doubt can be a mistake, I'm not so comfortable condemning a relationship for which I have no first-hand experience. I'm just saying, every situation is different.
        • Vi
          Vi
          offline 55

          Re: Emotional Abuse

          Sat, January 26, 2008 - 11:31 PM
          Some very helpful advice. Thanks so much.
          • Re: Emotional Abuse

            Sun, January 27, 2008 - 4:56 PM
            <<<My partner is extremely co-dependent.>>>

            it is within the realm of possibility that he is not the only one doing a little projecting...
            • Vi
              Vi
              offline 55

              Re: Emotional Abuse

              Sun, January 27, 2008 - 5:09 PM
              Within the realm of possibility, Jeff, yes. However, for the past week, while my efforts to resolve the current issue have been ignored by my man, I have been happily toiling away at all of the things I love to do on my own. I miss him, of course. Am I co-dependent? Realistically, who in any relationship isn't to some extent? But if my partner wanted to do something on his own or with friends, I would encourage it whole-heartedly, miss him while he was gone, and be excited to hear about what a great time he had the next time we would see each other. I rarely get the same encouragement from him - instead I get guilt trips for leaving him alone. So interpret it as you will, but I don't think I'm struggling with co-dependence any more than any other healthy, self-aware individual in a partnership might.
              • Re: Emotional Abuse

                Thu, January 31, 2008 - 7:10 PM
                Dear Vi,

                Co-dependence isn't just about being needy. In fact, in almost every co-dependent relationship (which you rightly point out is almost every relationship, period) there is one person who is needy and the other is stand-offish. You can even both be doing both at the same time.

                For instance, with my last girlfriend she was really needy emotionally, and I kept my cool emotionally. However, she always had her foot a little bit out the door, and I was always needy in trying to get her to stay. So emotionally, she was needy and I was stand-offish, yet at the exact same time I was needy in keeping the relationship alive, and in that regard *she* was stand-offish.

                If he were significantly more or less co-dependent than you are, the relationship couldn't survive. Serious relationships are based upon a strong resonance between the people involved, so it wouldn't work any other way. The point of that is not to blame you or make you out to be the bad person, but just to point out something that might help you in your healing process so you can make the best decisions for yourself.

                As for what you should do with him, there's really not much that you can do. If he snorts at the idea of couples' counseling - and doesn't offer any alternative - then he clearly doesn't want to work through his own issues. Instead, he wants you to validate his story and for you to just do what he wants you to do. If that's okay with you, then you should stay with him. If not, then you should make sure he knows how close you are to leaving him, and if he doesn't wake up to what you're saying in relatively short order, it might be time to move on.

                That's just my $0.02.
                • Vi
                  Vi
                  offline 55

                  Re: Emotional Abuse

                  Fri, February 1, 2008 - 9:59 AM
                  Thanks, Nathan - I agree completely.

                  In the end, we're taking some time to figure out what we each want/need/expect in a relationship. Ideally, we'll both write out our desires, and then compare notes and see where we are willing to compromise to be together. If one or both of us feels we will not be able to compromise on aspects that to one of us are very important, we will likely decide to continue as friends, and allow ourselves and each other to move on. If, on the other hand, we feel it's worth trying again, the next step will likely be some kind of counseling in some form, to work through and resolve issues from the past that we feel might continue to affect us in the future.

                  We really love each other a lot, and despite all the drama and pain, we don't want to throw this relationship away, or leave having bad feelings for one another. Neither of us has been satisfied with the way things have been going - if we try again, I think we need to start with a fresh slate, and a greater awareness of each other's needs.

                  Wish us luck!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Emotional Abuse

                    Fri, February 1, 2008 - 11:32 AM
                    Vi, sounds like you're proceeding with head and heart together. Good luck to you indeed.

                    Nathan, well said.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Emotional Abuse

                    Sat, February 2, 2008 - 9:44 AM
                    I think that's an excellent idea, and I hope it works out for both of your highest goods. Best of luck to you! :)
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Emotional Abuse

                    Wed, February 6, 2008 - 9:34 PM
                    good for you Vi.
                    It sounds like you were able to get a message through.. that you both have needs which may have to be met differently.
                    Good for you.
                    I hope it turns out well.
                    Let us know.
        • Re: Emotional Abuse

          Mon, January 28, 2008 - 2:31 PM
          dear whether,
          I simply stated hwo it sounded to me... and I prefaced my comments with those words.
          All situations are different.

          Its up to the original poster to choose her steps in life. She asked for feedback and thoughts. I gave mine. They are 50/50 right or wrong. I will never know. I hope all our collective words and her thoughts help her move into a healthier space in life with this partner or not.
          • Re: Emotional Abuse

            Mon, January 28, 2008 - 2:37 PM
            Hi Vii:

            While I am in no way endorsing your partner's behavior as described, I do wish to point out that we only have your view of events and of him - it's sort of a half-painted picture.

            That's what makes these types of queries somewhat difficult to wade through IMO

            ~V~
            • Vi
              Vi
              offline 55

              Re: Emotional Abuse

              Mon, January 28, 2008 - 2:52 PM
              Of course. All I can give is my point of view. To his credit, I have things I need to work on too in order to make this relationship work. It's just that I've never had to deal with someone as sensitive as him (and I thought my ex was suuuuuuper sensitive!!), and his reactions are like none I've ever seen. At our worst, he has treated worse than anyone ever has in my entire life (which is super peachy otherwise) - and my own experience is the only reference I have.
              • Re: Emotional Abuse

                Mon, January 28, 2008 - 3:52 PM
                Can I ask Vi whether you experienced this super sensitivity in your life with parents ?Or were you?My instinct as I read yr last post..was ah ha...here is the gold...within those feelings it brings up for you...blessings..
                • Vi
                  Vi
                  offline 55

                  Re: Emotional Abuse

                  Mon, January 28, 2008 - 9:37 PM
                  My mom is pretty sensitive. My dad can be pretty emotionally abusive to her (calling her stupid, good for nothing, making fun of her in front of their friends...). While my dad is completely and inexcusable out of line when he does that, I always found that my mom's reactions to it simply fed the fire. It's not a pretty sight when they get like that.

                  As for myself, as a kid I was sensitive, say if my 2 best friends hung out without me - I would cry and be so upset. As I got older, I realized that there are many ways to interpret words and actions. In general, unless something is said in an outright attempt to be hurtful, I choose to find the positive or neutral in things. If there is only negative, I do my best to let it pass over me rather than dwelling on it. It's not so easy when it's your partner though, and he's calling you all sorts of things you would never even dream of calling even your worst enemy...

                  I have been told I can be a bit insensitive at times. I can how some people might think that. I tend to be very straightforward, no bullshit - especially with those I care about the most. For example, if I am planning to do something, I will be clear and straightforward about what it is and why. I don't pussyfoot around or flower it up. I don't see any need for that, and it would feel weird, dishonest, and fake for me if I tried...
  • Re: Emotional Abuse

    Sat, March 29, 2008 - 4:17 PM
    I'm going to be honest. This is NOT your problem to address.

    It's his.

    It will increase without him seeking help in managing it and overcoming it.

    I would suggest a few books but need to track down the actual titles. One is on co-dependency, the other is on abuse. Verbal and emotional are just as harmful as physical (often more) as they break the spirit.

    Pm me if you ever need an ear.

    I've been there.

    Big hugs,
    Tia

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