Relationship without co-dependence

topic posted Wed, May 7, 2008 - 12:23 PM by  Nathan
There is an interesting theory out there regarding relationships and co-dependence. Most relationships are founded on co-dependence--the kind of co-dependence where you don't really love and support each other, you're both just there for what you can get out of it. Your partner becomes your means to salvation/end suffering/feel love/etc. Whatever you give to your partner is in expectation of what you might get later in return.

Even those relationships that aren't founded on co-dependence will have some elements of co-dependence to them, just because that's part of human nature.

However, there is a way to avoid the worst of this kind of dynamic. It has to do with where you allow your motivation for being in relationship to come from. If you're in it because of what you think you can get out of it, then it will be co-dependent. If you're in it because you want to "save" your partner, then it will also be co-dependent (even if you believe that you're being completely "selfless").

The only way to completely avoid the pitfalls of co-dependence is to be in a relationship for no other reason than because Truth tells you to be there. If it's painful, and Truth tells you to stay, stay. If it's wonderful and Truth tells you to move on, move on. In this way, your motivations and what you expect to get out of the relationship all come from Truth, not fear, lack, or need.

What are your thoughts?
posted by:
Nathan
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Relationship without co-dependence

    Wed, May 7, 2008 - 1:22 PM
    Perhaps the only way to have a Perfect Relationship with other humans is to not have any at all with others, and simply live in fear and with absence of connection with others becaue if it's not perfect or healthy according to this, that and the other guru or book, or anecdote...it's not worth having or doing. Instead, we can discuss the perfect cicle, the perfect union and the most idealized notions of everything...as abstractions

    but never really practice being open to others, being genuine, our most authentic selves....even if that means dysfunction, rejection...

    Not sniping at you Nathan: I'm just blathering about the subtext rippling in the current of some posts all over the place on Tribe...

    regards,

    ~V~
    • Re: Relationship without co-dependence

      Thu, May 8, 2008 - 12:21 PM
      I know the subtext you are talking about, and that is actually what I was trying to address here. There are always these questions of "should I do this or should I do that in my relationship? -- i.e What is the best way for me to get what I want out of my partner?" That, to me, is the search for the "Perfect Relationship". The thing is, all relationships are perfect, once you understand that you have what you yourself have created.

      So, to avoid this one particularly large and extremely common pitfall, you need to have a completely different approach, one that addresses the underlying problem -- which is that people think that they love their partners, when quite often they are actually just attached to them because of what they can get out of them. Of course, the difference in approach is so different that you can't possibly get any sense of fulfillment out of the relationship, which is too high a price for some to pay, even though in exchange for their co-dependence they would get a healthy and a relatively drama-free relationship.

      Anyway, I appreciate your comments and hope we can continue to have a healthy discussion on the topic.
      • Re: Relationship without co-dependence

        Mon, May 12, 2008 - 9:08 PM
        <<< the underlying problem -- which is that people think that they love their partners, when quite often they are actually just attached to them because of what they can get out of them. >>>

        thats not co-dependence. thats manipulation.
        • Re: Relationship without co-dependence

          Tue, May 13, 2008 - 10:55 AM
          Yes, that is manipulation, but for me that manipulation is a function of co-dependence.

          What, to you, would co-dependence without manipulation look like?
          • Re: Relationship without co-dependence

            Tue, May 13, 2008 - 11:03 AM
            I think healthy interdependence is ideally the path to explore.

            I think we all have our "strengths" & "weaknesses" that we bring to the Forum.

            Knowing what our strengths and faults are is a first step; not using them in a manipulative manner is another step as well as being honest about who and how we are is another....

            ~V~
  • Re: Relationship without co-dependence

    Thu, May 8, 2008 - 7:53 AM
    what then is the truth you speak of?
    all relationships are codependent and it's not always a bad thing. the word got a bad rep along the way, but sometimes serves the positive aspects of being together even if only for a term before turning to dust.
    i have to respectfully disagree with the w on this one. after 17 years of marriage, i have come to know that codependence takes time to evolve. we slowly train each other to fulfill either our best possibilities, or worst damaging dances. sometimes the same dance serves the good on the surface, but feeds our most feared self hatreds underneath.
    surface= go forth, be successful
    underneath= why don't you love me
    i could go on with examples for days.
    we love just because we do. we choose companionship because we do as natural truth directs us. we mold one another to serve our needs as they will have healing, or deepen our wounds. truth, as you speak of can only mean that "we always win the game we're playing" be it to heal, or to cause us pain. when we choose to be conscious of our relationship, we can look at our relationships from a panoramic perspective and see clearly the path we are choosing for ourselves. therefore, we are all in TRUTH able to direct our relationships however we want them to look by being honest and responsible.
    • Re: Relationship without co-dependence

      Thu, May 8, 2008 - 12:44 PM
      The truth that I speak of is self-evident once you really look for it. It's not a doctrine or a guideline or a position of any kind. It is just the truth of your own nature -- that which animates your body and all of life itself.

      Co-dependence doesn't always feel bad, and in fact it often feels good. That's why people engage in it so much and don't even think to question it. When you've sat in the stew of your own suffering for some period of time and someone comes along and tells you, "I love you, and I'm going to make you feel good again," of course you are happy with the result, even if your new partner is being co-dependent with you. Who wouldn't be happy with that?

      The problem is that this sort of approach has its inherent limitations, limitations that eventually lead back to suffering, sometimes even more suffering than what you experienced before. The best that you can hope for in this kind of relationship is that both people will continuously give what they need to give in order to receive what they want from their partner, and hopefully the rules around this exchange won't ever change too much. Some people would be more than satisfied with this kind of arrangement, but it's still a situation in which you're both feeding a bottomless pit that can't ever be filled by another human being. If you want that pit to go away, you have to deal with it yourself.

      Then again, very few relationships can maintain this sort of "best-case-scenario" without something changing or somebody feeling that they aren't getting as much out of the relationship as they are putting into it -- and so drama ensues. In my experience, there isn't any way to engage in co-dependence without some problem surfacing later, so to avoid those kinds of problems you need to bypass that whole dynamic somehow. For me, I've found that nothing will do that until you've given up on getting something out of the relationship, and instead simply receive what is given and only stick around so long as it is in everyone's highest good to do so -- which is what Truth will tell you if you care to ask.
  • Re: Relationship without co-dependence

    Thu, May 8, 2008 - 9:08 AM
    I've experienced relationships that have been co-depenent in the psychologicl definition of the term. It seems that many relationshipswhich become dysfunctional in this way do so as an extention of one's own identification with ego and the subsequent dysfuntion such identification it brings into all aspects of life. When we believe we *are* our relationship or our occupation or anything else the ego seeks to identify with, we begin to relate to these as if our very lives depend on maintaining the asocoated identifications. Ultimately, who we *are* cannot be defined by external things like relationships. Once we become aware of this, we find that interdependency (from a place of inner wholeness) can flourish and codependency (from a place of inner lack) falls away.

    Perfect Relationship? Such a thing is merely an intellectual concept, the only thing that can be perfect is one's own relationship to what *is*, acceptance of what *is* without judgment. There is no such thing as 'perfection' in human form only perfection in human *being*.

    Satisfying relationships begin within oneself and extend out into one's interactions with others. This prevents one from being drawn into the drama of another person's dysfuntion. We are freed to relate from a deeper presence where we can observe such behavior without being drawn into it.

    At least this is what I have learned works best for me in relationships.
  • Re: Relationship without co-dependence

    Fri, May 9, 2008 - 7:09 PM
    Well, I am fairly relieved that I have had enough experience with co-dependence to know to run when I see it, or at least to point and identify, hopefully calling it out will nip it in the bud. I think that codependency is an over used 'ailment' name. Sure there are moments when a partner might depend on another in a time of need, but this does not make the relationship a codependent one overall.

    When a person wrangles to 'take care of you' is a biig red flag for codependency. I generally am cautious in that situation. I prefer to envision the relatinship as two people walking along side one another, not one carrying the other for any period of time.

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